Proposition Q Voters Will Vote Separately, On Paper

The St. Louis County Election Commission said it got the information too late for it to be on the same ballot as the other items.

Maplewood residents who vote on Proposition Q on Tuesday will find a slightly different procedure.

Proposition Q will not be loaded onto the electronic touch screen, and a voter will need to ask for a paper ballot to vote on Proposition Q.

St. Louis County Director of Elections Rita Heard Days said the proposition was submitted late.

"Initially they first had to get the signatures, after they did that, we had to certify that those were all good signatures. Between that time, it took them a little time to figure out if they were going to move forward with that," she said.

An originator of the referendum, Tonya Powell, said they were not late, or the city and board of elections would not have accepted the petition. 

She said all their petition submissions were directly to the city. "We did not submit anything to the Board of Elections. That is the city's responsibility," Powell said.

"It is my understanding that the city submitted the ballot language too late and that is why there are two ballots," she said.

Maplewood City Manager Marty Corcoran said nobody was late, and it couldn't have been done any earlier.

"There was nobody late in filing," he said. "We had to go to court to put it on to abide by the requirements of the charter."

Proposition Q is the referendum on the ordinance that allows QuikTrip to move from its current spot in Maplewood to the northwest corner of Manchester Road and Big Bend Boulevard. A yes vote agrees with the ordinance and the QuikTrip move. A no vote goes against the move.

Michelle Seymour March 27, 2013 at 12:40 PM
This looks shady.
Becca Stevens March 27, 2013 at 01:59 PM
This whole things is a shambles. I don't know what's going on, but I find it hard to believe that our councilpersons are up to something shady. We aren't talking about power-hungry Washington legislators here, these folks are our nieghbors, for crying out loud! Just make up your mind based on the FACTS whether you want QT to move or leave Maplewood, and vote accordingdly.
Becca Stevens March 27, 2013 at 02:05 PM
Also, think about this logically. Having to get a separate ballot for Prop Q will harm the yes side. It seems that the most vociferous voters are on the no side, while those on the yes side will probably be at least slightly more inclined to not bother with a separate ballot.
Shawn Faulkingham March 27, 2013 at 02:57 PM
I would just make sure you get a paper ballot, so you have everything there in front of you. The Board of Elections should not even have the Electronic Voting machines if they can't put Prop Q on it. (You would think it would be easy to do, seeing how it's electronic, which baffles me). I am calling them to see if they can just use the paper ballots to get rid of the confusion.
Ken Cohen March 27, 2013 at 04:13 PM
I was told by the election board that there will be two paper ballots - one for candidates and the other for Prop. Q. And yes, Prop. Q will not be on the touch screen version. Someone else should verify this. Doug Miner's article does not mention two paper ballots and Shawn's comment is based on Doug's story. If you are interested in this, please call the election board and post what you are told. I think Maplewood voters should know what to expect in terms of ballot structure before April 2. Ken Cohen
Jennifer O Brown March 28, 2013 at 03:01 AM
In trying to understand what I may be voting for or against in Q, has anyone seen the QT in Hazelwood or St. John? Is this what we would be getting? They are really not gas stations but large convenience / take home restaurants with pizza, salads and full coffee shops. I found out that these store are both Generation 3 stores. Can any one of our council members or city administrators that follow this site confirm if this is what was approved by the City and may be built on Big Bend?
Beverly Tronicek March 28, 2013 at 03:30 AM
Most of our surrounding cities would not allow a gas station/convenience store next to their city halls or in front of their public schools. Why? Because they have a vision and plan for their beautiful cities. I've live in Maplewood since 1993, and I love living here, but it is time for Maplewood to step it up. When Walgreens wanted to go in on the corner of Big Bend and Clayton, the City of Clayton required that they build a beautiful building rather than the standard ugly Walgreens design. Yes, development does need to occur on the corner of Big Bend and Manchester, but our city should not allow just anything to go up. Cities do regulate the "ugly" and "tacky" factor, and Maplewood should too. We are at a fork in the road. At this point our city can be proactive to ensure that our most prominent corner reflects the history, pride, and priorities of our community. We can seek out development that will put Maplewood on the Map. Look what U-City has done with their Loop area and what the City of St. Louis has done with Grand Blvd (both award winning). Maplewood! Don't settle for red and white plastic architecture. Set your sites much higher. Anyway Maplewood does not receive tax money on gasoline. Also, I do not believe that QuikTrip will move out of Maplewood altogether. They've got it too good here. QuikTrip can investigate expanding south on their current site. Show PRIDE in Maplewood. Vote NO on PROP Q!
Nicholas Frisella March 28, 2013 at 09:54 PM
"There was nobody late in filing," he said. "We had to go to court to put it on to abide by the requirements of the charter." -Maplewood City Manager Marty Corcoran I called the St. Louis County Election Board today and they corroborated Marty's statement (in case anyone was wondering). Obviously the referendum process is not something that occurs very often. Should the city charter be amended to take the St. Louis County Election Board's "due date" into consideration?
Shawn Faulkingham March 29, 2013 at 12:33 PM
Nick - The reason everyone thinks it was late had to do with timing of passing the Ordinance. We did everything that we had to including going to a judge to get this on the April 2 ballot. Had it been 2 weeks later that we passed the ordinance and then add 30+ days for referendum and signature validation, we would of missed the April 2 ballot and probably would had to of done a special ballot. 2 weeks earlier and no issues. So no need to change the charter; just a case of timing.
Mynda March 29, 2013 at 05:31 PM
Mr. Lessig, on April 2, voters will decide whether the original QT ordinance is a good development for the NW corner of Big Bend and Manchester. Why do you imply that if they decide “No,” they will be stuck with “the gray building as it appears today”? The building wasn’t always as drab as it is now. It has lovely architectural features that have been hidden beneath the gray façade. The building could be rehabbed and, once again, be an attractive location in Maplewood, similar to the St. Louis Closet Company across Big Bend. Or, if that is not feasible, perhaps a new building that tastefully mirrors the character of downtown Maplewood could be put in its place. If QT is willing to pay to put their building in this location, it is hard to believe no other developer would do the same. You said in a Patch comment Thursday afternoon, “...if Quik Trip (QT) does not become my family's tenant after April 2, it will [be] up to me to find another.” I recognize the process of finding an appropriate tenant may take some time, but it can be done. Companies keep moving into Maplewood. Certainly one with enough money to properly develop this corner can be found. It’s not that there are no options, we just haven’t found the right match. Please don’t do Maplewood a disservice by limiting the options of your property to just the Gen 3 QT and the ugly version of what used to be a beautiful building.
Becca Stevens March 29, 2013 at 06:13 PM
Mr. Lessig, I don't believe Mynda is suggesting that your family rehab the building before you have a tenant. I was all set to vote yes on April 2, just on the basis that I've yet to see any logical argument against the new QT. But your selfish whining posts on here have gotten on my last nerve. I don't suspect any of our Maplewood elected officials of any shady doings, but you come off like the kind of make-a-buck-quick kind of loser that Maplewood just doesn't need. Why do you have to paint this as a vote yes or nothing good will ever happen on that corner scenario? It reads like a hostage note. Do you even live in Maplewood? Do you have any interest in the area other than your financial investment in the building?
Babsgarcia March 30, 2013 at 03:03 PM
@Becca.. I just wanted to chime in on Mr. Lesseg. He has been posting on articles, yes, but honestly if you look around to his posts, he has remained civil without attacking. I think that so many have posted as though there are dozens of options for that corner if the QT doesn't, that he finally stated that there really aren't other options in a more direct way. I probably would have done the same after trying to get my point accross so many times politely! ha Like him or not-the bottom line is his family owns the property. If it wasnt for the variance needed for the gas tanks, we wouldnt be here today, no vote, no amount of outcry against would make a difference. (Think Wal-mart) Maplewood doesnt have the authority to tell them what to do with the land beyond maintaining the buidling. From his past posts; this deal has taken two years to get here. From what I understand of businesses, they will not invest as much as is needed to redevelop that corner without owning the land & the Lesseg Family is not selling. Personally, I am voting yes, because I can't stand that big grey monster & would rather see a QT than that eyesore for another two years. A Wal-mart was put in my backyard without a vote. Walk in there at 9pm to see we don't really care about our image that much--it makes us "Maple-hood" more than any QT ever would. But I guess those who dont live on this end of town get to ignore that one--maybe its why I see more YES signs by me--tit for tat.
Jennifer O Brown March 30, 2013 at 03:33 PM
Before we decide to vote yes on Q, has there been any research done to see how the Gen 3 QT will impact area businesses? I found several articles online interviewing QT spokesman Mike Thornbrugh about these stores. QT expects their gas and cigarette buyers to decline (past main target customer) so in the coming years they are aggressively going after the coffee, convenience restaurant/grocery store food buyer. Chris Moon (Witchita Business Journal), 6/10/11: "company hopes to jump into the coffee house market.. competing against the likes of Starbucks and the many independent coffee shops". In article by Kyle Arnold (Tulsa World): "QT will offer for the first time soft-serve ice cream, coffees and yogurt prepared by the staff of the Generation 3. The store is also testing 'grab and go" foods, such as prepared pizzas, salads and lasagna that can be taken home and baked. " .."It's no secret that we're changing stripes and moving into the fresh food business," Thornbrugh says. Jeff Lenard, (National Association of Convenience Stores): stores want to be seen in the future as a restaurant that wants to sell gas, as opposed to a gas station that sells food," I think the city may be correct that the effect will not be felt much for the location gas station owner. But with the new goals of Gen 3 QT to compete with our wonderful coffee shops and restaurants the impact could be huge. Hope this info is helpful; please research before you decide how to vote.
Jennifer O Brown March 30, 2013 at 06:05 PM
From a Vote Yes on Proposition Q flyer left in my door, (the one with the Mayor's and Chamber Commerce quotes are listed on the back), it makes is sounds as if QT is not approved then a liquor store, tavern hall or billiard hall could go in. That is next to the school. Could that happen? Another question: Would QT be selling alcohol at that store? As a parent of two this is important to know.
Nicholas Frisella March 30, 2013 at 06:20 PM
I believe QT would sell beer and wine (they do at the current location). If QT is not approved then the property owner would have to find a different company to lease the property to. Any speculation as to what kind of company that would be is just that speculation. One of the property owners has said due to the way the family wants to lease the property it would most likely be a corporation.
Nicholas Frisella March 30, 2013 at 09:34 PM
Shawn, I appreciate your response. Earlier you said you would see if the Election Board would just do all paper ballots, did anything come of that? Also will there be one paper ballot or two? Thanks, Nick
TP April 01, 2013 at 05:12 PM
Nick - Our understanding at this time is that there will still be two ballots. And although you can vote for candidates on the machines, Prop Q is only a paper ballot. So you can vote on two paper ballots, or one on a machine and one on paper, but either way you slice it, you will need two ballots. According to the conversation an absentee voter had with the Board of Elections, they poll workers are required to give you two ballots without you having to ask. However, human error could occur so please remind your friends and neighbors they will need two ballots. Thanks!
corndogandpizza April 01, 2013 at 06:33 PM
@tp What do you think of Nick from Maplewood and my latest conversation. What is the downside we are not thinking about. Nick from Maplewood. This is a vote changer. I say lets vote healthy. Everyone should ask themselves what am I voting on, read your links and think about our choices. Let’s be responsible voters. Here’s my take away. Quiktrip is offering a healthy alternative to White Castle, Jack in the Box and SteaknShake to our kids and us. In my opinion our downtown businesses will be okay as they don’t compete with Quiktrips business plan, the fast food industry on the other hand will have a bulls eye on there back. The great thing is these are all out of town corporations, so I don’t feel obligated as much to them as I would say The Post, Tiffany’s or those folks serving food out of trucks. On the other hand I like them as a choice, but in an unintended way, are we are saying give us a healthy choice or you may not survive. Analyzing this further, our kids stopping by after school may end out buying an apple or orange instead of a greasy burger. (Before you say it, I know it’s a stretch), but the choice is there. Even better maybe we can get the wellness committee to work with Quiktrip and give away(subsidies) Apples and oranges to all teenagers on Friday’s between 3:00 and 4:00. Are we turning our backs to a healthy choice by voting NO. If a nice starbucks shows up, what does this offer to my kids that have to walk by everyday.
TP April 01, 2013 at 07:53 PM
For me, and I am only speaking for myself here, the deciding factor has mostly to do with the Ordinance we are voting on and how it affects that immediate neighborhood. I don't care so much that this is a QT as much as I care that it is a high traffic business so close to the school and I think the way the current ordinance harms the neighborhood. The blocking of Martini completely takes away the ability to keep car/pedestrian traffic separate from bus traffic, which is paramount to student safety and even governed by State law. Erectng a full barrier across the alley also limits accessibilty for Fisrt Responders. (Yes, I realize a large enough vehicle can drive through or over certin baricades, but I still think open access is faster.) I also take issue with the cut-through from Big Bend as this also pushes cars, kids and busses all into the same limited area and forces Lohmeyer to become a thoroughfare which also drives more traffic thru campus. I'm sure there will be several who think that if kids can't cross the roads safely then it's all their fault, but you asked for my opinion. There will also be those saying that if Prop Q passes the Council can implement the amended ordinance, but I have to vote on the ordinance presented instead of what might or might not be changed later.
TP April 01, 2013 at 08:13 PM
As a member of the Referendum Committee I'll respond that there are several different camps asking you to Vote No. Those that feel as I do personally and those that feel a Mega QT is too large for the site. Some are opposed to plastic architecture and others feel that corner could use something that is lower volume but higher dollar. Many residents of the area fear they will have slower response from emergency vehicles as well. I do wish there had been more transparency from the Council when we asked for things like legal opinons and expected tax revenue, but we have what we have and that is what we need to work with. My point being that everyone has their own belief system and should research what this ordinance is and what it will mean to this intersection, that neighborhood and our community. We aren't voting on "what ifs", or "only ifs". We are voting on an ordinance that was passed by the Council in November and has the potential to cause some real problems in an area traveled by any hunderds of drivers and pedestrians of all ages every day. We hope that research will bring others to Vote No for any or all of the above reasons. We feel this ordinance has the potential to create a 20 year mistake and that Maplewood deserves a development with fewer risks and more planning. That's it in a nutshell. Maplewood deserves better.
Susan April 01, 2013 at 09:31 PM
And as I have said MANY times, let the voters decide.
TP April 01, 2013 at 09:36 PM
Exactly, but since there has been so much mis-information, (like what we are actually voting on) I hope they do the research required to make an informed decision. Although I have shared my views above, as requested, I also encourage people to research the facts and not just rely on the back and forth seen here.
Nicholas Frisella April 01, 2013 at 10:10 PM
Just to clarify. I DO NOT support Proposition Q and I did help collect signatures for the referendum committee. I personally believe if someone sits down and reviews all the facts presented without bias they would feel the same. Corndog, I can call you corndog, right? :) I sent two responses to your question on Easter. You asked my opinion on what the negative impact of QT relocating could be to local business. The first never uploaded and the second response was the post with three links that described what a generation 3 Quik Trip is. I gave my opinion and then posted the links so you and others could form your own opinion based on facts. It is interesting to me that after reading the links you formed an opinion vastly different than my own. That is why, I also believe, it is important to get all of the facts out there so that people can make their own informed decision. I personally don't believe QT is going to provide a healthy alternative to the school kids. QT will offer the "convenience factor" and just like a fast food restaurant will lead to people sacrificing quality for convenience. With respect, Nick When I get home from work I will try to figure out why my first response didn't post and hopefully find a copy I can just paste. Trying to keep up with this issue is very time consuming but it is a worthwhile effort so onward I push! I would also like to point out the discussion here has been very thoughtful and free of anger, good work everyone!
Nicholas Frisella April 01, 2013 at 10:34 PM
Found it! Nick from Maplewood 7:13 pm on Sunday, March 31, 2013 Corndogandpizza, Call it the convenience factor. Generation 3 Quik Trips are designed to have fresh fruit, wraps, sandwiches, and hot food. They sell ready to eat items and offer prepared meals to reheat at home. They contain a coffee bar, soda station, hot food station, and baked goods. In addition Quik Trip sells a limited selection of groceries, bottled drinks, beer, and wine. They also sell items like dog food, aspirin, toilet paper, diapers, and toothpaste. Some people would be willing to sacrifice quality for the convenience of QT's goods and their onsite parking. Any of the awesome restaurants in Maplewood would potentially lose business because of this convenience factor. Foundation Grounds and Stone Spiral would lose some of their coffee and baked good sales to QT. Shop n Save would also be affected. Think about it, if drive distance wasn't a factor, would it be easier to park, grab a gallon of milk, and pay at QT or Shop n Save? That is why I think local business would be affected by the relocation. A business like QT requires a lot of traffic to be profitable. They apply a mathematical formula to traffic conditions at a every intersection they plan on moving to. Big Bend and Manchester fits that formula so the amount of customers visiting QT daily will be extremely different than the amount of customers visiting the scooter store.
corndogandpizza April 02, 2013 at 04:54 AM
Nick from Maplewood. I like you are trying to keep up and find it worthwhile. Your counter points were good and got me thinking, but at the end of the day, the positives out weighted the negatives. I entered the back and forth when the discussion turned to apples and oranges. You may find this amusing. I poked around and at the end of day thought the apple or orange conversation was misleading and insulting to the voters and insinuated distrust amongst our city leaders. I even stated I will not be voting for an apple or and orange, but for Maplewood. Now I find myself voting YES for more apples and oranges. If PROP Q passes, QT will be locating down the street and some of the near businesses will need to step up. If it fails, I’ll wait to hear about the new direction. If the direction is an out of town corporation or if QT leaves Maplewood, so be it, this is what we voted on. Corndog, hey you, poop head. I’ve been called worse. Hey Nick from Maplewood, One last thing, it appears we will be canceling out each others vote, unless that is, I can talk you into not voting. lol Cheers!
Shawn Faulkingham April 02, 2013 at 01:18 PM
Sorry for the delay Nick. TP is correct. No matter how you vote, paper or electronic, you will get a separate paper ballot for Prop Q. Now, get out there and VOTE!


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